You likely have lots of feelings about living in a changing climate: from anger to frustration, dread and anxiety, but also motivation to do something about it out of love for being alive, love for your family and love for the planet. Rebecca Weston says that while these emotions can be difficult and scary, all of the feelings you have about climate change, including your love for the planet, can be "mobilized" into action on personal and community levels. Weston is a psychotherapist who practices climate psychology. She’s also co-president of the Climate Psychology Alliance of North America. In the sixth season of Degrees, “How to Green Your Job,” Rebecca speaks with Degrees host Yesh Pavlik Slenk about how this approach to mental health care is different from how the field has historically been practiced. She also shares her journey from labor law to climate-aware psychology, and how she grappled with her own climate anxiety.
Rebecca Weston, LCSW and JD is a metro-New York psychotherapist and co-president of the Climate Psychology Alliance of North America. She supports climate-aware mental health practitioners and professionals on the front lines of climate work. She’s also written multiple pieces and spoken on the mental health impacts of the climate crisis, and how other systems of inequity affect climate mental issues.
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Who makes Degrees?
Degrees: Real talk about planet-saving careers is presented by Environmental Defense Fund (EDF). Yesh Pavlik Slenk is our host. Amy Morse is EDF’s producer. Podcast Allies is our production company. Stephanie Wolf produced this episode. Mia Lobel is our story editor. Ayo Oti is our researcher. Engineering by Kevin Kline. Our music is Shame, Shame, Shame from Yesh’s favorite band, Lake Street Dive.
YESH PAVLIK SLENK:
We’re going to be jumping around in time a little bit in today’s episode. It starts in 2019 - with a TED Talk.
LERTZMAN:
What if by understanding ourselves and one another, we could find our way through this crisis in a new and different way?
PAVLIK SLENK:
That’s noted climate researcher and psychologist Renee Lertzman talking about the moment she figured out how to turn her climate anxiety into something more productive.
LERTZMAN:
You know, what if psychology actually held a missing key to unlocking action on the greatest challenges facing our planet right now?
PAVLIK SLENK:
It just so happens that at that time, today’s guest - also a psychologist - was coming to terms with her own climate anxiety. And Renee’s words - in her Ted Talk and in her writing, both validated and inspired our guest.
REBECCA WESTON:
“I think every single feeling we have needs to be mobilized for climate action.”
PAVLIK SLENK:
That’s our guest Rebecca Weston.
WESTON:
“Including our love for the earth, including our love for our families, our love for our children, our love for art, our love for plants, our love to being alive.”
PAVLIK SLENK:
Rebecca now recognizes that all of our emotions, the uplifting ones, the upsetting ones and everything in between, can be useful in the fight against climate change. In today’s episode Rebecca is going to walk us through how she aligned both her career and her mental health… because she now practices a specific kind of mental health care… climate psychology.
This is Degrees – Real talk about planet-saving careers from Environmental Defense Fund.
[THEME MUSIC IN]
Change is coming, oh yeah
Ain’t no holding it back
Ain't no running
Change is coming, oh yeah!
[THEME MUSIC OUT]
PAVLIK SLENK:
Welcome back to Degrees for our sixth season, which we’re calling “How to Green Your Job.” I’m your host Yesh Pavlik Slenk.
So far this season we’ve heard from two people who’ve channeled their climate anxiety into climate solutions and greened their jobs in the process. Today’s guest - climate psychotherapist Rebecca Weston - is specifically focused on helping people manage that anxiety. We’re going to get to her career path in a few minutes. But first, we need to understand exactly what it means to practice climate psychology.
As she defines it, Rebecca’s work helps people recognize and, to use her term, “metabolize” all of their feelings about the climate crisis.
WESTON:
“And so our job is to help people stay within a tolerable bandwidth where they're not immobilized, where they're not sort of ducking and avoiding or in a kind of hyper-vigilant, agitated state. But in a really optimal place where they can take in the information, figure out how to engage and relate to other people, and take care of themselves and do something about it.”
PAVLIK SLENK:
So Rebecca meets one-on-one with people who are working to do just that. In addition to her private psychotherapy practice, Rebecca is also co-president of the Climate Psychology Alliance of North America. This volunteer-run nonprofit trains clinicians in climate-aware practices. It also advocates for a different approach to mental health care – a big change to how the profession has largely been done in the past.
WESTON:
“There are tensions within my field, as there are in so many other fields, about how to struggle with our embeddedness in the social and political systems that we're in. And the myth is, that therapy is supposed to be a neutral zone.”
PAVLIK SLENK:
There’s been a long-standing doctrine in the field that politics be left at the door. That mental health professionals should not initiate conversations about political, economic, social or environmental issues. And if they do come up, then discussions should be redirected toward the individual psyche – focusing on the patient’s behaviors or analyzing how childhood or family experiences might be making them feel this way.
Rebecca, and her like-minded colleagues, see mental health differently. She says external factors – like climate change – impact an individual’s mental well-being.
WESTON:
“The larger social and political contexts are deeply part of how we experience our own individuality, our own sense of community, our own sense of social engagement, our own sense of capacity.”
PAVLIK SLENK:
In climate-aware psychology practices, the topic of climate change IS allowed in the room.
WESTON:
There's so many different ways in which clinicians grapple with this. But I think the biggest one is that it is naming, very overtly, that the larger political and social context is impacting us. And that our emotions are a reflection of the larger political and social world. That's huge in my field, because so much, people go there to talk about relationships, to talk about their jobs, to talk about all of the kinds of things that are very interpersonal, and often don't get permission to name the larger context in which those things are coming up. And if they do, they're sort of seen as kind of footnotes or side issues, as opposed to deeply embedded in the way we experience ourselves.”
PAVLIK SLENK:
Rebecca says another key difference between climate psychology and other mental health care fields is that, to some degree, climate-aware therapists have an agenda. They not only want to make people feel better, but they also want to give them a sense of agency and possibly even inspire them to take action
WESTON:
“Not only because that addresses their feelings about climate anxiety, or climate dread, or PTSD, or all of the other feelings that people might have. But because we really do need a political and social movement to try to actually affect change. We need many, many, many more people than scientists, and policy thinkers to be active on these issues. And so climate-aware therapy takes as a starting point that we are trying to move people to some kind of action that makes sense in their lives.”
PAVLIK SLENK:
So Rebecca isn’t just trying to help patients get rid of their climate anxiety. She’s also trying to help them use it for good.
Ok, now that we have a better understanding of what climate psychology is, let’s back up a bit. To the early 90s. Because Rebecca hasn’t spent her entire career as a climate-aware psychotherapist. In fact, her professional path didn’t even begin in psychology. Rebecca came to the profession after years working in law. Labor law to be exact.
Rebecca has always been driven by her political and social activism. And she went into law thinking it would be a way for her to have a positive impact on the world. As a labor attorney, one of her main responsibilities was helping draft contracts for union workers. And she quickly became disillusioned with the profession.
WESTON:
“I was this young kid getting out of law school and I felt incredibly illegitimate in that role, that for me to be in a position of helping write contracts that helped determine people's lives felt profoundly anti-democratic.”
PAVLIK SLENK:
Rebecca says she also experienced and witnessed a lot of sexism and sexual harassment within the legal world. That further alienated her from the profession. And she began to question if law was the right fit for her. Then, she had an experience that pushed her to make her first big change. It was with one of her clients. A baker.
WESTON:
“Who was a member of a union, a baker's union, and he was about to receive his pension. And as it happens, he had been quote, unquote, stealing 10 minutes off on his time clock, and had been also taking baked goods that had expired and selling them on the side. And for these two contract violations, he was fired right before his pension vested, and he had cancer, he had terminal cancer. And he quite literally had zero contractual defense for what he was doing. And I was struggling to match the contract language with a sense of humanity about this person.”
PAVLIK SLENK:
Rebecca says it was difficult to get the baker to open up to her about his struggles – she suspected he didn’t trust her, and she didn’t blame him for distrusting an attorney! Regardless, she wrote an impassioned plea to the judge overseeing the case, asking that judge to consider the man’s humanity and what he was going through.
WESTON:
And I, of course, lost because there was, , no contractual defense. I felt ripped to pieces about my inability to connect with this man for whom I had such empathy and that the entire institutional structure was designed not to connect in very real ways with him. And I needed something else.”
PAVLIK SLENK:
Rebecca knew then, without a doubt, she had to find a different job, a different career really! Something that would feel in sync with her values.
WESTON:
It actually felt like a really natural step to quit. It did not feel scary. It did not feel out of character. It felt like it was a consistent way of being responsive to what I believed was important in the world.”
PAVLIK SLENK:
So in 2000, Rebecca reoriented her career goals. She wanted to find a field more focused on people’s humanity and experiences of the world. She ultimately decided to pursue psychology and became a psychotherapist.
Let’s fast forward again, to 2018. Rebecca is living in Montana with her family. And she’s working as a psychotherapist. As part of her job that year she attended a summit organized by a local sustainability organization. There, she came across a report from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, or IPCC. This is the United Nations’ division dedicated to assessing the science around climate change.
The 2018 report was alarming. It warned that, unless immediate action is taken to cut greenhouse gas emissions, the consequences would be dire: extreme heat, significant habitat and species loss, drought, widespread food scarcity.
Rebecca says she heard that, and she panicked.
WESTON:
“I could no longer be engaged in my own denial about climate. It was the one social and political issue that I was terrified of. And I hid from it because I was so scared. // And I'm not quite sure I know why it broke through. I think in some ways, it's kind of hard to predict when that happens. When do people finally feel as if they can tolerate the fear, tolerate the overwhelm of that?”
PAVLIK SLENK:
Rebecca had avoided all of her own emotions about climate change up until this very moment at the Montana summit. It wasn’t that she didn’t think the scale and scope of the climate crisis was huge. She knew that. But it wasn’t until she was sitting in that room – filled with experts from many different fields all working to do their part to help – that she really felt it. And she began to face her climate fears head on.
WESTON:
“So I had my own personal transformation, but I think it's a deeply, deeply personal process for a lot of people; at what point they're able to take in the reality of the information and their own capacity to engage it.”
PAVLIK SLENK:
“I mean, I've worked on climate change for a long time. But when I was on maternity leave with my second child, the IPCC report came out. This was early 2021. And I didn't read it till I went back to work because I just couldn't take the emotional gravity of that new report and the new results while I was sleep deprived and hormones were raging through my body and I was a mess, separate and separate of reading that report. So I really get that there are times in our lives to isolate crises, and there are times to address it and I think a lot of our listeners are hoping to use their careers, as I use mine, to cope with some of that anxiety.”
So how did Rebecca take those feelings of dread and fear after that IPCC report and channel it into her work? We’ll find out… after a break.
—
PAVLIK SLENK:
Welcome back to Degrees from Environmental Defense Fund. I’m your host Yesh Pavlik Slenk.
So before the break, psychotherapist Rebecca Weston was at a climate conference in Missoula, Montana where she was finally confronted head on with her own feelings about the climate crisis. It was 2018, and she was rattled.
PAVLIK SLENK IN INTERVIEW:
“So tell me a little bit more about that moment with the IPCC report. You know, what were you feeling when you were getting in touch with your emotions about the climate crisis and how did you deal with those emotions, if you're willing to share, and then turn that into action?”
WESTON:
“Oh goodness. I think it hit me – I was in a room filled with about 50 to 75 people, all of whom had been engaging on the issue far more in depth than I had. And I was mostly silent during the entire thing, just absorbing and hearing. And I think watching so many other people begin to grapple with the question gave me a sense of confidence that maybe I could too. and I don't think these are things to be handled alone. I think that we absolutely need to have a sense of connection and relationship in order to be able to take in such truly scary information. And so I think in that context, I was given a pillow to say, this shit is scary.”
PAVLIK SLENK:
Rebecca thought about her kids, and what their future would be like on a warming planet.
WESTON:
“I literally imagined the world going blank at 2030. That's how I conjured up what my own particular dystopian sense would be. And I panicked, and I cried a great deal. I struggled a lot with going to work, trying to talk about people's dating lives. And I found that the lack of being in sync with some of those things, the magnitude felt really confusing and disorienting. Which is not to say that anxiety can't be profoundly sort of energizing if it's within a certain bandwidth, but I found it really important to think about how much I loved being alive and I do I absolutely love it and how much that was really important to bring to the story and into my work and with people as we engage the question of climate.”
PAVLIK SLENK:
Rebecca left that conference with a new sense of purpose. With the support of her friend network, she began to channel her climate fears. She started to notice articles about climate dread and anxiety. And then, in 2019, she discovered Renee Lertzman’s work.
LERTZMAN:
You know, what if psychology actually held a missing key to unlocking action on the greatest challenges facing our planet right now?
PAVLIK SLENK:
Rebecca started reading more of what Renee Lertzmann had to say. Eventually, she started to notice hints of climate anxiety in conversations with her own clients. And little by little, Rebecca’s path became clear. That same year, Rebecca pivoted again. Refocusing all of her work toward climate-aware psychology practices.
So, back to you dear listeners. How do we accept the very real and valid stress of it all, and also not let it overwhelm us? How do we process these emotions and then allow them to fuel us to do something about the crisis? Rebecca has now spent the last few years helping her clients figure that out. And she has some tips to share!
First, be gentle with yourself.
WESTON:
“We all come from different circumstances. And those are very natural feelings to go up and down about our capacity. And once we are softer towards ourselves about that, we are also softer and more capable of reaching other people. We have become much more pliable, much more flexible, much more engaging, much more appealing as we talk to other people. And so I think the first thing I would suggest, is kindness to ourselves, in all sorts of ways… (34:24) And when we can do that, we can also then find a way to be much more kind and open towards others as we open up the question: What's it like to be surrounded by 115 degree heat? How are you feeling? What's it like to be facing a hurricane for the third consecutive year after you've just rebuilt or you haven't even rebuilt yet? How does all of that feel? And I'm beginning to ask those questions of our neighbors, of our friends. Because when we do, invariably people are happy to talk about it. Well, happy is the wrong word, relieved to talk about it. It's like there's a collective holding of a breath that finally gets to exhale. It's like (EXHALES) someone's naming something.
PAVLIK SLENK:
Rebecca says another key approach to metabolizing all the emotions around climate anxiety is community.
WESTON:
“I think the vast majority of people care about these issues. The problem is that there is also a tremendous amount of silence about those feelings.”
PAVLIK SLENK:
In order to break the cycle of anxiety leading to inaction, you have to break that silence.
WESTON:
“And so we have this model called the Climate Cafe. And the premise is that we get groups of people together in a profoundly non-judgmental space. And we just slowly deepen the conversation about, how are we feeling. And invariably, there are tears. And invariably, there's laughter and connection, and out of that kind of collective conversation are collective solutions, collective ways of thinking about what to do in the community. It's the most beautiful process. And that all builds our capacity to tolerate difficult feelings and build the resilience to handle and stay present with the problem.”
PAVLIK SLENK:
Ok, so tip one, cut yourself some slack. Tip two, find community. And tip three - remember that small wins are still wins. The work doesn’t have to, and likely can’t, happen all at once. Incremental progress is progress. Whether that’s going electric with your next car, making sure you turn off the lights when you don’t need them or convincing your workplace to start composting. We can have an impact at the individual and community level.
WESTON:
“I think that we're not doing anybody any favors to think in terms of climate clocks, for example, at 2030, this is gonna happen. At 2050, this is going to happen. Of course, there are tipping points that I think are profoundly important. But I also think we need to really, really remember that we are alive in these moments impacting our communities, impacting ourselves. And so the more and more we get engaged in really local community work, the more our bodies are part of the process, the more relationships become part of the process, the more a whole range of our humanity becomes part of the process. And with that, we realize we are going to be dealing with this long term, it is an ongoing process that we need to really deepen and build relationships of care. I know that sounds cheesy. I know it sounds like kind of 1960s Woowoo. But it's actually really, really vital to keep people engaged and alive to the issue without feeling as if they're going to collapse.”
PAVLIK SLENK:
But most importantly, going back to this idea of community. Even though the path to climate action can feel impossible and lonely, Rebecca says you are NOT alone.
WESTON:
“Whether we're at the grocery store, whether we're driving our kid to school, whatever we're doing, we are not alone in these feelings. And I still believe as simple, as it sounds, that one of the most important things we can do is what Katharine Hayhoe says…”
PAVLIK SLENK:
Katharine Hayhoe is a well-known atmospheric scientist who studies climate change.
WESTON:
“…which is to talk about it, to break the climate silence. And we can do that in any field that we're working in. Because all of our fields, all of our professions are deeply embedded in a system that is still dependent on fossil fuels. There's no system that is not relevant to the question. So on the one hand, yes, it can involve making dramatic changes in your career. It can involve shifting entirely your skill set. On another, it's also just talking on the job, just talking with your friends, just talking with your neighbor.”
PAVLIK SLENK:
Rebecca recently wrote an op-ed with a friend for Newsweek magazine. In the piece, the two write that too much climate responsibility has been placed on the individual, on our own consumption habits. Here’s a short excerpt: “...we live with a stomach-churning sense of complicity and cognitive dissonance. Feeling both that it is our fault and that our actions are too miniscule to matter, most of us stay silent on climate.”
Rebecca wants people to imagine what would happen if we felt empowered to talk about climate change and our emotions about the crisis all the time.
WESTON:
“Imagine what could not be gotten away with anymore, if all of these feelings were not internalized as individual problems, or as individual professional choices, but actually collective speech, collective voice. It still remains the biggest thing and we can do that in whatever profession we're in, if we can address the feelings we have about it.”
PAVLIK SLENK:
That's it for today’s episode!
Next week on Degrees, we’ll meet Pooja Tilvawala, the founder and executive director of the Youth Climate Cooperative - an organization that helps young people take meaningful climate action while also keeping an eye on their mental health.
TILVAWALA:
“We're constantly asked to give, you know, what is the youth statement, the youth perspective, how can we possibly summarize the youth perspective of youth around the world in a one minute, two minute statement? You know, that's ridiculous to me. And so I'd really like to see that change. Give us the space and time that we deserve and really listen.”
PAVLIK SLENK:
Be sure to check out other episodes of Degrees on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you're listening now. Share this podcast with a friend so you can both learn how you can help fight climate change. And learn where the jobs are and how you can make a difference.
And don’t forget to look up our Green Jobs Hub to find all the resources to jumpstart your green job career search.
Degrees is presented by Environmental Defense Fund. Amy Morse is our producer. Podcast Allies is our production company. Stephanie Wolf produced this episode. Mia Lobel is our story editor. Ayo Oti is our researcher. Engineering by Kevin Kline.
Our music is Shame, Shame, Shame from Lake Street Dive. And I’m your host, Yesh Pavlik Slenk. Stay fired up y’all.
[THEME MUSIC IN]
Change is coming, oh yeah
Ain’t no holding it back
Ain't no running
Change is coming, oh yeah!
[THEME MUSIC OUT]