Greening your job often means talking about sustainability and climate solutions at work. But how do you talk about climate change when your boss doesn’t get it — and doesn’t want to hear it? On today’s show, climate communication rock star Dr. Katharine Hayhoe shares her own journey learning how to do some of the most difficult planet-saving work there is: learning how to talk about climate change across political, emotional, geographical, and generational divides. Dr. Katharine Hayhoe is an atmospheric scientist and the best-selling author of Saving Us: A Climate Scientist's Case for Hope and Healing in a Divided World, host of the PBS digital series Global Weirding, and chief scientist at The Nature Conservancy. Considered a Canadian polar bear where she lives in Texas, you’ll hear how Dr. Hayhoe has approached conversations on climate with everyone from women’s book clubs, to church groups, to college students taking jobs in oil and gas. Through listening and finding common ground, she’s persuaded all kinds of people to help save the planet. And you can too!
Dr. Katharine Hayhoe’s research focuses on understanding what climate change means for people and the places where we live. She is the Horn Distinguished Professor of Public Policy and Public Law at Texas Tech University. Her book Saving Us: A Climate Scientist's Case for Hope and Healing in a Divided World, followed her 2018 TED Talk, “The most important thing you can do to fight climate change: talk about it.” The Guardian called her “a committed Christian who has gained a reputation for being able to reach across the most partisan of political divides.” ‘
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Degrees: Real talk about planet-saving careers is presented by Environmental Defense Fund (EDF). Yesh Pavlik Slenk is our host. Amy Morse is EDF’s producer. Podcast Allies is our production company. Tressa Versteeg produced this episode. Mia Lobel is our story editor. Ayo Oti is our researcher. Engineering by Kevin Kline. Editing assistance on this episode from executive producer Elaine Appleton Grant. Our music is Shame, Shame, Shame from Yesh’s favorite band, Lake Street Dive.
YESH PAVLIK SLENK:
I’m Yesh Pavlik Slenk and this is Degrees: Real talk about planet-saving careers from Environmental Defense Fund. I can’t believe it, but this is the last episode of Season 6: How to Green Your Job. And we have such a treat in store for you.
All this season, you’ve heard guest after guest say, you don’t have to have sustainability in your job title to make an impact where you work. But that means you have to talk about it!
I know, easier said than done. But as today’s guests will tell you, connecting with someone who may not think the same way you do about climate change doesn’t have to be scary or uncomfortable. It can be a real opportunity to make a difference.
THEME MUSIC
Change is coming, oh yeah
Ain’t no holding it back
Ain't no running
Change is coming, oh yeah!
PAVLIK SLENK:
Today on Degrees, I am thrilled to announce THE Dr. Katharine Hayhoe. I cannot believe I'm saying that, truly. Dr. Hayhoe is an expert on how to talk to people about climate change, even when - and especially when - it's uncomfortable.
So let me run through just a few of her many accolades. Dr. Katharine Hayhoe is an atmospheric scientist and the chief scientist at The Nature Conservancy. She's the author of one of my favorite books, Saving Us: a climate scientist's case for hope and healing in a divided world. And Dr. Hayhoe is also a Distinguished Professor and Chair of Public Policy and Public Law at Texas Tech University. And she's the host of the PBS show Global Weirding.
I've been following her work for a very long time, pointing people in her direction. It is so surreal and amazing and thrilling to have you here, Dr. Hayhoe. Welcome to Degrees.
HAYHOE:
Thank you so much for having me.
PAVLIK SLENK:
Okay, so Katharine, we are a show about careers and helping people find their footing on their green job path. I'd like to talk a little bit about your journey. And today, you seem to have a million jobs. When did you know that you wanted to be a scientist?
HAYHOE:
Well, my dad was a science teacher. And so I grew up with the idea that science is the coolest thing you could possibly want to study because, who doesn't want to know why the sky is blue and why grass is green and how polar bears actually have black skin?
PAVLIK SLENK:
[laughs]
HAYHOE:
So I was indoctrinated from a very early age into science. But I was not planning to be a climate scientist. I was planning to be an astrophysicist. But when I was studying astronomy and physics at the University of Toronto, I needed an extra class to finish my degree. And it had to be a breadth requirement. It couldn't be in my major program. So I looked around and there was a brand new class on climate change over in the Geography Department. I thought, well, that looks interesting. Why not take it?
Now, I had already learned about climate change growing up in Canada. I learned about it in high school. And so I knew that it was real, and it was human caused, and it was serious. But at that time, I thought of climate change as still a future issue, rather than a present one. And I thought of it as an environmental issue that environmentalists will take care of, and the rest of us can support their work and watch their documentaries and wish them well. I took that class and I was completely shocked to learn, first of all, that climate change is no longer a future issue. It's affecting all of us right now, right here. And of course, that's even more true now than when I was taking that class.
But I also learned that although climate change is, of course, an environmental issue, it is also a health issue, a food issue, a water issue, a poverty issue, an equity issue, a national security issue, an economic issue, a human issue. And to care about it, you don't have to be any type of certain person, you just have to be a human being living on planet earth, who wants a safe place to live, food to eat, clean water to come out of the tap, you know, a good job to have, and a place to bring up your kids. If you're somebody who wants any of those things, then you automatically care about climate change, because that's what climate change puts at risk.
And when I also learned that climate change affects all of us. But it doesn't affect us all equally. When I learned that the most vulnerable and most marginalized people are the people who have done the least to contribute to the problem. That's when I knew that I had to do everything I could to help make a difference, to use my voice to advocate for action on behalf of many people who don't have the ability to do that right now.
PAVLIK SLENK:
It sounds like there was a really profound moment that hit you and set you on this path. And let's talk about that voice that you have really owned and amplified to get this message across. Have you always been a good communicator? Because I mean, let's be honest, not all scientists are great communicators or educators. But you seem to have found your superpower in this with your voice.
HAYHOE:
Well no, I was not a good communicator to begin with because as scientists, we are actually trained to be good science communicators to each other, but not to anyone else. So if you go to a scientific conference, you are going to have people giving presentations that are mostly about what we don't know, or we just recently discovered. And they are going to be using very long words that are very precise and accurate, but very difficult to understand, using lots of figures and graphs and equations that frankly, there's probably only five people in the world, let alone in that room, who could fully understand everything that's presented in a scientific conference. And that is the way that we are taught to communicate.
Whereas communicating human to human about important issues is the opposite. We need to focus a lot more on what we do know, than what we don't. We need to be able to communicate in ways that are concrete and relatable that are here and now, rather than abstract and in the future. And so effective communication really is the opposite of what we're trying to do as scientists. So when I first started communicating about science, I was awful. Absolutely awful.
So what made the difference? Well, I realized that good communication was very important because we could do the best science in the world. But if no one actually understands what we're saying, and why we're saying it, then what's the point? So back a long time ago, one of the first projects that I did, after my master's degree, was working with the Union of Concerned Scientists. I was one of the climate scientists working on the Great Lakes Climate Impact Assessment. And so we worked on this whole report, and they actually had a science writer working with us. So I learned a lot about effective writing and how to be accurate and precise, but not to use these, you know, long complicated words and paragraph long sentences that nobody can understand.
And then the last meeting we had before the report came out, I showed up, and they had a media trainer. And I thought to myself, What is this? Why do we need somebody to train us how to communicate? Aren't we the experts in this topic? And she started to take us through media communication training and I felt like scales fell from my eyes. I had no idea that there was a science to effective communication. That there was actually techniques that you could learn and practice. It was a complete revelation to me and I was hooked from that moment on.
PAVLIK SLENK:
It's so refreshing to hear that this was not a skill that you already had or that you were born with. There are strategies, there are techniques, there are systems that you can focus on to communicate more effectively.
Well, in your book, Saving Us, you share many stories about confrontation and confusion, and questions that you address about climate change on, often, a daily basis. How are you able to have tough conversations about climate change? Can you walk me through your approach?
HAYHOE:
Yes. So I talked earlier about two of the inflection points in my career. First of all, recognizing how unfair climate change was. And then, realizing that there was a science to communication, that you could actually figure out how to do it better.
Well, a third inflection point, for me, was when we moved to Texas. And the reason we moved to Texas was because the university wanted my husband and I was the plus one that they were willing to give a spousal accommodation to to get my husband. So here I was in Texas, where it turned out that I was the only climate scientist within almost a 500 mile radius of that town at that university.
PAVLIK SLENK:
That's very lonely.
HAYHOE:
It is. But within a couple of months of arriving there, I started to get all kinds of people reaching out to me who were curious. It was almost like a polar bear had moved to town and they were wondering: What do they have to say?
PAVLIK SLENK:
[laughs]
HAYHOE:
So like, often we categorize people into just two groups when it comes to climate change. We think of them as you know, believers or deniers. But that's a very black and white very simplistic perspective. The Yale Program on Climate Communication has a much richer perspective, which is that we fall along a spectrum: from alarmed to dismissive. And dismissive people are - though they're very loud, especially on social media, and most of us probably know at least one person in our lives who's dismissive - they are only 10% of the population. Just 10%. Most people are actually cautious, which means they lead with their doubts. But if you can address their doubts, they're willing to have a conversation.
But then I started to get questions that were along the lines of: “Well, okay, so obviously, you care because you're a scientist, but why should I care about this?” And that's when I realized that I had to do something that was very uncomfortable to do as a scientist - I really needed to share with them why I cared about it as a human, not just a scientist, because I figured there was a lot of reasons I cared about it that they might too.
So the first time I was - ever had the opportunity to do this. I'd been invited to speak at Second Baptist Church. They didn't know that I was a Christian. So they had figured, you know, the polar bear’s in town, why don't we invite her over to see what she has to say? Well, little did they know that I had a lot to say, because my faith is actually an integral part of what I do. But I'd never spoken about it with anybody before.
So I gathered myself up. I tried to put a few of my reasons in PowerPoint, along with some Bible verses. And I was sort of expecting people to just sort of roll their eyes or maybe even laugh. But instead, I saw an even deeper connection being made. And instead of asking, “Why I should care?” The questions I got at the end were, “Oh, well, what should I be doing about it?” And that's exactly where we want to get people to.
So then I started to realize that, I went to speak to the Rotarians - the local Rotary Club. I'm not a Rotarian. But I walked in, and they had this huge banner - this six foot high banner - with the four way test on it: Is it the truth? Is it fair? Is it beneficial to all concerned? And I was like, “Oh, my gosh! This relates directly to climate change.” So I took my presentation, and I skipped the lunch line. I just sat on a chair in the corner, and I reorganized it into their four way test.
PAVLIK SLENK:
Brilliant.
HAYHOE:
And I gave the four way test on climate change to the Rotarians. And at the end, I remember this banker stood up and he said, “I never really thought that global warming was real, but it passed the four way test. So like, what can I do? This is my value system, it passed.” That was just most incredible light bulb that went off, realizing that if we can start where people are at - and in some cases that we could be starting with fishing, or the fact that we both love coffee, or beach vacations, or the fact that we both knit -
PAVLIK SLENK:
[Laughs]
HAYHOE:
Or we're both mothers, or we both love skiing. If we can start with what we have in common, connect the dots to how climate change is affecting what we both care about, then the next question is, what can I do? And that's exactly where we want to get people.
PAVLIK SLENK:
It sounds like you really look for feedback in these conversations and are really trying to read your audience and tailor to them, meet them where they are, so you can get better at connecting and you can make your message really clear.
I'm really curious, have you ever had an “oh, crap” moment when talking to somebody about climate change? When you realized, yikes, this is not going well.
HAYHOE:
Mhmm, that's a great question. Um, yes, I've had plenty of oh shit moments!
PAVLIK SLENK:
[laughs] I said, “Oh, crap,” but “Oh, shit,” that's - that sounds worse. [laughs]
HAYHOE:
[laughs] Um, I've had oh, crap and oh shit, I should say. It’s a sliding scale there, right.
I would say that as bad as we may feel in the moment, those are our opportunities to learn the most. So, I hate saying things that offend people by accident. Like, you know, if they're offended by the fact that I’m a climate scientist, too bad. But if I say something that disrespects who they are, or somehow denigrates something that's important to them, I just feel really bad about that. And so I've had conversations where, because I didn't ask enough questions, and I didn't listen ahead of time, and I made some assumptions about who they were - sometimes that led me to saying something that then was very offensive to their identity.
So that taught me to really listen more and to keep - to not make assumptions about who people are. Because I have, you know, since learning that, had some really incredible conversations with people that at first glance, you would have made all kinds of assumptions about them that were totally wrong!
And so the best point of connection for you is something radically different than I would have ever thought of. And so that's something that I feel like I've really learned a lot about and I'm still working on getting better. I feel like we get better on that ‘till the end of our lives. But realizing that a good conversation often begins by listening and learning about the person first, rather than jumping in with what I think is most important. So that's lesson number one.
Lesson number two, is when to just stop and walk away. And that is how to identify somebody who's dismissive. So they know a lot! They know about, you know, urban temperature records versus rural temperature records. They know Michael Mann's name, they know about the hockey stick, about volcanic eruptions and their impact on climate. And they are invested in arguing.
In fact, they want to argue, because arguing reinforces their sense of identity. And initially, when I started to have conversations, I was like, oh, bring it. Because I have the facts. And I can answer every single argument you have. But what I learned is that it is like the whack-a-mole game at the fair. Whatever argument you address, they will pop up with a new one. So let me tell you, these conversations can go for a long time, and at the end, that person will be even more entrenched in their denial at the end than they were when you began. Whereas you will be exhausted and frustrated and angry - which is the opposite result of what you wanted!
MUSIC
PAVLIK SLENK:
After the break, Katharine and I discuss climate conversation fears that we hear all the time… What if being co-workers isn’t enough of a connection? What if I get branded as the boring environmentalist? And how can I be a climate advocate in a workplace that is doing absolutely nothing about climate change?
For Katharine’s advice, stay tuned.
AD BREAK
MUSIC
PAVLIK SLENK:
This is Degrees: real talk about planet saving careers. I’m your host, Yesh Pavlik Slenk. You’re listening to my conversation with climate scientist and advocate Dr. Katharine Hayhoe, discussing how to talk about climate change by finding common ground. Let’s get back to it.
PAVLIK SLENK:
You talk a lot about meeting people where they are. And it sounds so simple, but for a lot of folks, it is terrifying, especially in a professional context. And outside of degrees, I run a workforce development program at EDF called Climate Corps. And one of the most common questions I get from current fellows, and in some cases, alumni of our program - it's how do I talk about climate change at work? You know, okay, first, we work at the same place. So that's our common ground. But what if being coworkers isn't enough to form a common bond to start that conversation?
HAYHOE:
And I would add a variant of that question that I tend to hear a lot, which is, everybody around me is bored of hearing me go on and on about climate change. So it's really important, like I said, that we begin our conversations with something the other person cares about. So in some cases, especially if they're in a leadership position at the company, then obviously they care about the bottom line of the company. They might care about the safety and security of the facilities, the integrity of the supply chain, the amount to which the company is prepared to weather climate extremes.
Figure out - do a little bit of homework. Figure out what it is that really your company cares about? And then, how is climate change affecting what my company cares about? Like have we seen flooding or extreme heat? Has our supply chain been compromised? Have our power bills soared in the summer?
I live in Texas, where the Federal Reserve of Dallas actually did a study this this summer showing that for every two degrees Fahrenheit, hotter it gets in the summer in Texas, the state's GDP goes down -
PAVLIK SLENK:
Wow.
HAYHOE:
And our power bills go up. So figure out what it is they care about, and then figure out how that's being affected, and that's what you would bring to the conversation. Now, some employees, they might just be showing up to work there, right. And so for them talking about the integrity of the supply chain, or the cost of the power bills isn't going to be their priority. So for them, you have to dig a little deeper and find out what they care about.
So in my book, Saving Us, I recommend doing an inventory of yourself, like what are the things you care about? Make a list! I am a mother, I like to cook, I enjoy winter sports. I do like a beach vacation. I live in Texas. I'm from Canada. You know, how do climate change affect the things that I care about?
So, I have a newsletter - a weekly newsletter called Talking Climate. And I try to talk about climate change from different perspectives every week. So I had one in September, where I talked about how climate change is affecting sports: how it's affecting tennis, and American football and soccer and - as well as winter sports. And then on social media, I saw this account called Fossil Free football, that talks all about what the different football and soccer clubs are doing to actually reduce their footprint as well as the impacts that climate change is having on the sport. And so I said, “Wow, what you're doing is phenomenal. This is exactly what I talk about.” And the guy who runs it, a guy called Frank was like, “Yeah, I started it after I read your book.” [laughs]
PAVLIK SLENK:
Oh my goodness. Wow.
HAYHOE:
And I was like, “Oh my gosh!” That’s amazing.
And then something really important is that you do not have to have a conversation with everyone. Sometimes there might be someone who you just cannot identify any common ground with. There is just no overlap. You don't want to have like a fake interest in whatever it is that they do. That would be awful. So in that case, you know, just move on to somebody that you can identify something you have in common with because the good thing is, is we're not alone - we're together on this. And so you don't have to bear the entire weight yourself. Lean in to your own strengths, your own interests, your own priorities. Find the people who are like minded, whether it's - one of my colleagues, he plays hockey. So he's really leaning into looking at how outdoor ice days are changing and talking to people in his league about climate change. Somebody else might be really into, you know, you walk your dog every day, and you talk to the same people every day. And you can talk about how we feed our pets is part of our carbon footprint.
I mean, these might sound trivial, but things that people care about: the people, places, things they love, that's the best place to start the conversation. And then related to the question I get, everybody's bored, I was like, “Well, look, if somebody loves fishing, do you think they're ever going to be bored about talking about fishing?”
PAVLIK SLENK:
Never.
HAYHOE:
Well, if they love fishing, then talk - exactly - then talk about climate change and fishing. They're probably bored, because you're talking about what you're passionate about. You’ve got to push the reset button, step back, ask them some questions, listen very carefully to the answers and start the conversation with what they care about, rather than with what you care about.
PAVLIK SLENK:
Well, another very common dilemma I hear from our program graduates is: okay, I have got this great education now. I'm so passionate about fighting climate change with my job. Do I go and work for a company that's really progressive on climate? As in, they have goals, they have targets, they have a team. Or do I go to a company where they have nothing? They have nothing on their website, no plan, but I know it's going to be important to them and their business eventually.
HAYHOE:
Mmm. Well, first of all, I would say in answer to almost any binary question like, should people work for more progressive organizations? Or should they work for organizations that are doing nothing? My answer is: Yes.
PAVLIK SLENK:
[laughs]
HAYHOE:
[laughs] And what I mean by that is, we need people working for every organization across the spectrum. So there's some that are not pioneers, like they're not Patagonia, but you know, they're moving along at a good clip, then there's others who are just getting started. So they might have, like, a chief sustainability officer - and they might not even have that, but they have somebody. So they're just sort of in the beginnings of their journey, and you could help them move along. So there's a whole spectrum and we need people at every point in that spectrum.
And so you don't have to feel that you have to go sort of as an evangelist to the least friendly companies in the world. But there could be some people who that really is their expertise - they have the confidence, they have the ability to step into an environment where they might feel lonely and isolated. And if they do, more power to them. Not everybody has to do that, but we definitely need people doing that.
So I think that taking jobs with companies like that, and really working from the inside can be incredibly powerful. But only if people are willing to listen. So with those types of companies that are not - you know, currently not doing anything, or only maybe greenwashing or giving lip service to it, if you take that job, you have to be prepared to have those conversations and lean pretty hard. Develop a support network outside, like the one that you offer, for example. There's others like Climate Voices -
PAVLIK SLENK:
Love them.
HAYHOE:
For employees to raise their voice. Develop a support network and go in there with a plan. And if it turns out that you just weren't in the role where they were willing to listen to you, then you know, at some point they gotta fish or cut bait, right. So don't feel like you have to sign up for 15 years of pushing the boulder uphill only to have it roll back and flatten you every time.
And I have had students who have been in situations like that. For example, a top engineering student, and she had already accepted a job at a big oil and gas firm. So she took my class and then she was debating, “What should I do?” And I said, “Well, if you've already accepted the job and you think there's potential for making change, then go ahead and take it and see if you can be a voice for change from the inside because believe me, we need voices for change both inside and outside the big fossil fuel companies.”
So she did take the job. But after about two years, she realized that nothing was going to change in response to her pushing. So she left and she ended up taking a job with a company that was already wanting to take action that could use her skills and her talent.
So don't feel like there's one perfect place where everybody has to go. We all have different abilities. And we have to realize that it's not entirely up to us. Like we can make the opportunities available, we can do our homework, we can figure out how climate change is posing a risk to that business. We can research all the other companies in that sector and what they're doing, and how much it's going to cost and what they should do and how much you know, they're going to make the money back. But ultimately, unless you're coming in as the CEO, somebody else is going to be making that decision. They have freewill, you cannot control them. All you can do is offer. And if they decide to make the wrong choice, that's not your fault. You've done everything you can.
And you know, you never know. What if you planted a seed? And a couple of years later, that seed actually started to grow. And it was because of what you had shared and the information that you had given them that they just weren't prepared for at the time, but in a couple of years later, they were. You might never know! And so that's why I don't think so much about measuring what I can see, because I know there's so much that I can't see. I hold myself responsible for letting people know why it matters and what they can do about it. And then it's up to them what they do with that.
PAVLIK SLENK:
You're speaking to a theme I have heard from many of our guests this season, which is ultimately do what you can and have faith that the rest will work out. Well, Dr. Hayhoe, something I'm struck by is that your book and your talks and the Global Weirding episodes, all of them are very hopeful. I mean, you talk about climate change day in and day out, you confront tough conversations, you get trolled on the internet - I've seen it. It looks tough. How do you cope with all of this? And what keeps you going?
HAYHOE:
Hmm! I love that question. Well, for many people today, um they are so paralyzed with anxiety over climate change. And I should say, for very rational reasons. I mean, it is bad and it is getting worse. And so if you are worried, first of all, most people already are worried - 70% of people in the US are worried. But here's the thing. We don't need hope when everything's going well. You need hope when everything's bad - and it's bad! So that means we need hope today more than ever.
And hope is not positive thinking. Hope is not blind optimism. It’s not sort of imitating a mythical ostrich where you just put your head in the sand and say, “Oh, everything's gonna be fine.” No! If we do that, it will not be fine. That is false hope. But what hope does is it says, there is a better future that is possible. And that is often what we're missing in our conversations and our dialogues on climate change. We're very good at painting the apocalyptic picture of what's going to happen. And the science is excellent at that. Especially the science I do - I do future projections.
But we have to show that if we take action, a world that is better than the one we have today is possible. And I believe that's true. I mean, today we have millions of people dying every year from breathing in the air pollution from burning fossil fuels. We live in a world where inequity is increasing, injustice is increasing and climate solutions done right clean up our air and our water, provide more food - not less, more affordable energy - not less, address inequalities within our society, lead to a better and safer and more stable world. So for hope to be real, we have to have a genuine authentic vision of what the future could look like. And then we need a path of how to get from where we are today to that vision.
And then, lastly, we need to know what each of us can do to help move us along that path. That's what hope is. So hope is not an emotion. And if we wait for hope to find us, it won't. Because all of the news that we read is based on what gets clicks - and let me tell you the stuff that makes you afraid or angry or frustrated, that gets the clicks. The hope doesn't get as many clicks. But if you go out and you practice hope, you look for reasons to be hopeful, they're all around us.
So a year and a half ago, I started a newsletter. And I started to share good news, not-so-good news, and then something people could do about climate change every week. And I was worried that I would run out of good news. And I am starting to cheat. For the last couple of months, I've been piling up two or three pieces of good news every week. And this last week, I did something unprecedented. I had good news and then I had more good news [laughs] because I had so much to share!
PAVLIK SLENK:
[laughs]
HAYHOE:
So that's where I find my hope and in a nutshell, I find it in people. So when I've had a hard day, in terms of you know, governments making terrible decisions to open new oil fields, or massive amounts of trolls attacking me on social media saying really hateful things - the best thing I can do is unplug and go out to spend time with the people, doing the things I love, in the places I love, because that's why we're fighting. So I grab my paddle and I go out in the water. Or I pick up my knitting, or I go for a walk with my husband, or I play a game with my son, or I call my sister. You know, I'm really convinced that doing things you love, with the people you love, in the places you love, is climate action. It's the fuel, it's the wind in our sails. And that love can counteract any amount of hate.
PAVLIK SLENK:
Beautiful. Perfectly, perfectly said. Well, Katharine, is there anything else that you'd like to share with our listeners who are green job seekers wanting to make a difference?
HAYHOE:
Yes. I would like you to know that we need everyone when it comes to climate action. Who you are is unique. You have unique experiences, unique passions, unique expertise. And so don't assume that climate jobs just fit a certain mold. We need everybody. Every single day I work with people who have degrees in business or law, people who are healthcare experts, people who are experts in journalism, or media and communication, as well as science.
So study what you're passionate about, work in what matters to you, because we need every single person bringing their own unique passion and expertise to bear on this issue, because who you are is different than anybody else in the world. And we need all of you, your whole self at the table making a difference. And when you work with people across your organization, help them understand how who they already are, and what they already do is already the perfect person to make climate decisions. Almost every major decision we're making these days - even where we live, what bank we choose to use, how we get to work, how we design our facilities, you know, our plans for the future - they're all climate decisions. Everybody can be a climate advocate, you don't have to have sustainability in your title. And every single one of us, I'm truly convinced, has the ability to make a difference. To move us one more step along that path to a better future.
PAVLIK SLENK:
Well, Dr. Katharine Hayhoe, thank you for joining me on Degrees. I'm so, so grateful for this conversation.
HAYHOE:
Thank you so much for having me.
MUSIC
PAVLIK SLENK:
I have to tell you - my cheeks hurt after this conversation! I was grinning from ear to ear the whole time. I will carry so many of Dr. Hayhoe’s lessons with me. Like, being able to have uncomfortable climate change conversations is actually a skill that you can learn and practice! We’ll link some resources in our show notes.
And another thing. The first steps of a tough conversation are to listen and do your homework. If you come in with assumptions and spout your ideas before figuring out where the other person is coming from, you’re going to miss the mark.
Remember, the climate actions our planet needs all start with a conversation. So talk to your coworkers, talk to other departments, talk to your boss.
And, that's it for Season 6 of Degrees! You heard it in this episode and all season - EVERY job is a green job. Listen to the entire season to get lessons from a punk rocker turned paralegal, a Hollywood writer, a hair and beauty entrepreneur, and all of our amazing guests to learn how you can get started greening your job today.
You can find Degrees on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you're listening now. And check out the resources at our Green Jobs Hub to jumpstart your career search.
As I close out Season 6, I have to say - thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you to all our listeners. We wouldn’t be able to do this show without you! So if you have ideas for future guests or job-seeking questions you need answered, write to me on LinkedIn.
Degrees is presented by Environmental Defense Fund. Amy Morse is our producer, with support from Catherine Weddig. Podcast Allies is our production company. Tressa Versteeg produced this episode. Mia Lobel is our story editor. Ayo Oti is our researcher. Engineering by Kevin Kline.
And a big thanks to the rest of the team who made this season of Degrees possible, including: Elaine Appleton Grant, Tina Bassir, Stephanie Wolfe, Andrew Parella, Matthew Simonson, Daniel Chavez Crook, and Audrey Nelson.
Our music is “Shame, Shame, Shame” from Lake Street Dive. And I’m your host, Yesh Pavlik Slenk. Stay fired up y’all.
THEME MUSIC
Change is coming, oh yeah
Ain’t no holding it back
Ain't no running
Change is coming, oh yeah!
HAYHOE:
I definitely felt like a polar bear.
PAVLIK SLENK:
[laughs] Amazing, amazing.