Degrees: Real talk about planet-saving careers

Lake Street Dive on music, activism, and bravery

Episode Summary

We talk to Lake Street Dive’s Mike Calabrese and lead singer Rachael Price about the challenges of being a green band, banning plastic water bottles from shows, the complicated intersection of art and activism—and who our theme song “Shame, Shame, Shame” is really about.

Episode Notes

Brooklyn-based Lake Street Dive is Yesh’s favorite band ever! She was so excited to talk to them about her most passionate subject, climate change, and to find out that they care about saving the world (especially for future generations) as much as she does.

Most people don’t think about how their favorite bands contribute to healing our planet. According to a study published in the academic journal Popular Music in 2019, five Scottish touring bands collectively created 19,314 kg (approx. 21 tons) of carbon emissions between the months of April and September. The average yearly carbon emissions per person globally, according to The Nature Conservancy, is four tons.

Lake Street Dive strives to make a difference. Drummer Mike Calabrese, a passionate environmentalist, has taken the lead in educating his fellow band members about climate change and inspiring them to take action. At their shows, they’ve created a culture of environmentalism by allowing only reusable water bottles and utensils—and of course by recycling. They have also partnered with Cool Effect, a carbon offsetting non-profit, to support environmental efforts that help underserved communities around the world. One beneficiary is the Los Santos Wind Power Project, which intends to provide clean energy to 50,000 people in the Los Santos region of Costa Rica. Their latest album, Obviously, includes the song “Making Do” about the effects of global warming on the lives of young people. 

Calabrese and lead singer Rachael Price discuss their experiences as an eco-conscious touring band, including their politics in their art, and how people can overcome their fears about our changing world in order to make it better for everyone. 

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Episode Transcription

This transcript was auto-generated from an audio recording. Please excuse any typos or grammatical errors.  

Yesh Pavlik Slenk (00:01):

Sometimes Mike Calabrese thinks he should quit music to clean up forests. But then the drummer of the indie band, Lake Street Dive, comes to his senses and decides to stick to what he knows. 

So instead he writes a song about how Columbia and Kenya got too damn hot.

Music (00:21):

You know Columbia and Kenya got too damn hot

And now you're making do with what you got

Everybody knew

Yesh Pavlik Slenk (00:32):

The band released the song "Making Do" earlier this year. It's clearly an environmental manifesto, but Mike says he doesn't want to sound too preachy.

Mike Calabrese (00:41):

I don't want to convince anybody of anything. I don't want to convince someone who likes the band that climate change is real or not. That's not our job. I think if anything, we want to just give people a perspective of how we feel about things.

Music (01:10):

Change is coming, oh yeah!

Ain’t no holding it back!

Ain’t no running, change is coming oh yeah!

Yesh Pavlik Slenk (01:12):

I'm Yesh Pavlik Slenk and this is Degrees, real talk about planet saving careers from Environmental Defense Fund. Today, we'll talk to Lake Street Dive's Mike Calabrese, and lead singer, Rachael Price, about the challenges of being a green band and why they banned plastic water bottles from their shows. They'll also tell us about writing our theme song, “Shame, Shame, Shame.” 

Welcome to Degrees, Mike and Rachael.

Mike Calabrese (01:37):

Thanks for having us. Thank You.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk (01:38):

Full disclosure listeners. I have producers making sure I stay objective here because Lake Street Dive is my very favorite band. Mike, jumping right in, it's not every musician who thinks about quitting his band to clean up forests or live in the forest or clean up streams. 

When did you first learn that you were an environmentalist?

Mike Calabrese (02:02):

You know, it's hard to say. I think it was kind of buried. It was pretty subconscious for, I think, most of my life, and it started in all the normal ways: camping with the folks or enjoying time at the shore, never getting out of the ocean, just enjoying nature in general.

I had always been super interested in science. I had a Popular Science subscription. I remember reading about biofuels when I was 11 years old and being like, oh, so cool. You don't need to use oil, you know, and all this stuff. Most of my life, and Rachael knows what I'm talking about here, I've been obsessed with food waste. It's one of my biggest issues.

So there were all these things kind of bubbling beneath the surface, but it wasn't until my wife and I had our first child that kind of like brought me out of kind of the more, I guess, self-centered or self-absorbed mindset that I was in before having a kid. Having a kid can just kind of blow your heart and your mind wide open, and all of a sudden you're worrying about 15 million things that you've never even considered.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk (03:12):

And by the time you figure this out, you are already a parent, you're already a very established musician. Thinking back to when you were a kid reading your Popular Science magazines, did you ever consider becoming a scientist instead of a musician? Or was that always just the plan, who you were when you came into the world?

Mike Calabrese (03:30):

Yeah, I mean, yes and no. I always joke with anyone who asks me about it. I wasn't forced into being a musician, but I kind of was by my family. It was a very loving force, you know, it was just like I grew up amongst it and my parents met in a rock band and my dad was like, if you're good at something and you like it, we will help you do that. 

And you know, a lot of my friends in high school who were very good musicians, were more directed towards this idea of, yeah, music is great, but make sure you major in business. I did the opposite. I was like, I can minor in science. I can be into science and be a musician. So I never took concrete steps to be a scientist. No.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk (04:19):

Well, I feel like I'm on the opposite side of that. I feel like I was gently forced into being an environmentalist. So, I understand and appreciate that journey. Now, Rachael, were you already concerned about the environment when Mike started talking about it or was Mike, shall we say, someone who converted you?

Rachael Price (04:39):

I don't think that my concern for the environment was at the forefront of my thoughts before Mike started bringing his concerns and solutions to the band. It started out with Mike and a crew member of ours, her name is Katie Benson. She started touring with us, and she said that there were a lot of things that we could do just in our small little touring unit to make our operation much greener, because that was a job that she'd had in the past. 

So she was one of the first people that came in and said, “You know, there's things you can do.” And we were like, oh, we should do them. And then we would have meetings and say what are the basic things, as soon as you get on a bus, you're like, I don't know what to do with all of this food waste or all this trash. And just put it somewhere.

And we were like maybe we should recycle. And then, maybe we should have our own reusable water bottles and make sure that those are the only things that people see on stage. So they know that we don't use plastic water bottles, and then let's never see a plastic water bottle. Let’s not allow them backstage and things like that. Mike has helped educate me with climate change and the crisis that we're going through and really inspired us all to pay more attention.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk (05:57):

It's a long journey right? You're busy, you're on tour. You're making music, you're contributing to the world in a different way. I really applaud you to take the time to think about the impact that you're making and the opportunities that you can have to make a change is important. But what does being a green band really mean, exactly? I mean, it involves controlling your trash and your concerts. It involves tracking your carbon footprint. It involves writing impactful songs. 

How else are you living up to this goal of being a green band?

Mike Calabrese (06:34):

I think it's kind of a cliché term now, but the idea of normalizing discussions about climate, which is very difficult, because our brains are wired to avoid thinking about these things. And it's funny, I think about like the IPCC report that came out a couple of days ago—

Yesh Pavlik Slenk (07:01):

Mike, I'm just going to interrupt you for folks who are listening. The IPCC report was released earlier this year, and essentially it said that the Earth's temperature is indeed rising as predicted and that some of the effects of climate change are irreversible at this point. 

However, it was hopeful because it did find that not all of the damage is irreversible and we can still do our part and do a lot to fight the worst effects of climate change. Carry on, continue, Mike.

Mike Calabrese (07:29):

Okay. Yeah. You know, it was almost normalized. Yeah. It sounds bad. It's the same stuff we know it's reiterated again, maybe a little bit worse than we thought. Especially if people were reading about this on their phone, that's where they get their news. You know, the easiest thing to do on a phone is swipe. And I think that aspect of not wanting to think about it, not wanting to talk about it, you got to train out of it. You have to practice talking about it. You just need to start small, water bottles, whatever, find a way in, you know, banning water bottles from our stages isn't going to save the planet in and of itself, but I often think about there's a lot of important things about individual action and a lot of insignificant things about individual action.

But the thing about individual action that I appreciate the most is you were practicing your resolve. And I think if you start to create a culture, like we have a band, we have a crew. If you create a culture where you can bring these things up in a safe place and you can see it happening in real time, it's like, oh, Lake Street Dive doesn't have any water bottles on their bus.

We have a new lighting guy. I wonder what he's gonna think when he enters our operation on a tour bus for the first time. It's going to be like, oh, we got to refill our water jugs ourselves. And we gotta, you know, make sure that the recycling's here and there's no plastic plates, you know, like we do dishes on the bus. 

And so when you create a culture like that, culture is the ultimate reinforcement. That's when the individual becomes bigger. And so I think that's kind of the key next steps for us is probably just to keep talking about it.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk (09:12):

Mike, you just talked a lot about culture and using your position, wherever it is, whatever it is, to make a difference and to start normalizing conversations about things like climate change. But I think there's a bit of a risk being a musician and an activist. In my family, I have people who don't think climate change is real, and they're also huge fans of Lake Street Dive. 

How do you walk the line between writing songs that mean a lot to you as an artist, but also avoid being preachy?

Mike Calabrese (09:45):

Well, we, in the culture of our band, have a kind of approach, whatever taboo or uncomfortable topics that sometimes have to do with politics or climate change or whatever divisive things, we approach it, first and foremost, from a place of honesty with ourselves and honestly about what we think, but also how we feel about it. 

I don't want to convince anybody of anything. I don't want to convince someone who likes the band that climate change is real or not. That's not our job. Our job is to tell you how we feel and if your butt is moving to one of our songs and that makes the words kind of enter your system in a more positive way, if anything, we want to just give people a perspective of how we feel about things. And we do get the occasional stick to music or this, that, or the other thing.

And my response to that is we are sticking to music. This is the music we're writing. You don't have to listen to it, you know, but if you feel something, even if it's challenging—there are plenty of musicians— I love their music. I listened to their perspectives and their songs, and I don't agree with their politics. I don't agree with everything they think, but I'm happy that at least through music, it's both incredibly personal, but don't take it personally. But if you can allow it to be, to exist between the audience and the musician creating it and let it sit there, give it its own place.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk (11:29):

Rachael, I'd love to ask you the same question I asked Mike, how do you tow the line between being preachy and, and just really expressing not only what you feel, but what you understand others are feeling?

Rachael Price (11:42):

I think through observation, through talking to people and understanding how other people feel besides yourself—a lot of times artists get the cliché that we're very self-involved. But I think in truth, artists are generally very, very observant people. The best ones are the best comedians, are the best songwriters, are painting a portrait and they're showing you a little feeling. And so I think that that is a big part of it. 

Like Mike said, you can't be preachy because we don't know everything. And it's not usually a very helpful way of communicating. In the end, like you might want to preach and you might have some very preachy things that you’re gonna write, but you might find that people don't really want to be necessarily told how to feel about something or what to do about something.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk (12:43):

Right. And I imagine that's a little bit harder for you in some ways, because you're the front woman of the band and these words are coming out of your mouth, even though they're representing other views in the group and more broadly.

Rachael Price (12:56):

Yeah. It's a bit scary. The first time that we performed “Making Do” we were just playing down in Florida. It was like mid-day. Everyone was like, it was already kind of a difficult vibe. Everyone was distanced and in their pods. And, uh, they were sort of far away from us but you could tell they wanted to dance and party. And I was like, well, okay, like here's our sobering song, right. That starts with a very somewhat sarcastic message being like, sorry, next generation. Like, things are not going to be great for you with all of this climate change.

And yeah. I don't think I sold the performance really because I was still figuring out in myself how I felt about having a message like this in the middle of our show, which generally our shows are a big, fun dance party.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk (13:47):

And they are, they are.

Rachael Price (13:49):

Yeah. And so I don't think I even said anything, we just did it. And I was like, okay. And you know, it took me a few shows after that to kind of ground myself and say what we were saying, keep it at the forefront. Like we have to experience pain and pleasure simultaneously. It's the paradox of life. And so there's no reason why we should say we're only delivering an experience of pleasure because that's not true that doesn't exist. So if our goal is in the end, just sort of like delivering a truthful message, then you might have to feel a little uncomfortable.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk (14:24):

Yup. Absolutely. And I can imagine that takes practice. And we're talking about one of your latest songs "Making Do" for our audience. It's about climate change and it taps into a little bit of the guilt that older generations, myself included, feel about climate change and the state of the world that we're leaving for future generations.

Music (14:50):

I just wanna die

What do I say to my baby girl 

Leaving her with half a world 

That we coulda done a lot 

I just wanna die 

What if she wants what she can’t become 

And she can't blame anyone 

Because it's no one's fault

Yesh Pavlik Slenk (15:11):

Mike, I'd love to hear about your initial process when writing the song. I know the two of you worked on this collaboratively, but where did you start?

Mike Calabrese (15:19):

I started with the opening line, which is kind of the last bit of the song "To the next generation, Merry Christmas. You're working harder than ever now. And the coffee sucks." You know, I just had this idea. I was watching a Bill Nye show. One of the first episodes was about climate change. And I thought this was actually a really good idea. One of the ways to talk about this stuff is to, you know, find people's stories and then find how climate is going to be related to their story. Because 100% there is a way it's going to be related to them. It's unavoidable in every facet of the world. This episode talked about how, um, coffee is a crop that's going to experience one of the greatest buy offs or shortages due to climate change in the coming decades. 

And I was just thinking, like I had this idea, it was like watching Sunrise Movement activists. They must have to really caffeinate themselves, you know, like to keep up this work, but there's not going to be as much coffee or it's going to be grown hydroponically and underground. What's going to happen—it's going to taste bad. You know? And I just had this feeling. It was like, that really hits you. You know, it hit me. And I was like, I'm going to start with this idea. And then to be quite honest I just started writing lyrics that I thought were bad because they were so blatant, just like sentences rattling around in my brain that I just put on paper and put in time and tried my best to where I'm like—

Yesh Pavlik Slenk (16:51):

Rachael, did you think they were bad too?

Rachael Price (16:54):

No. No, not at all. I mean, I don't know if you wrote a second draft or what we got after that journal entry, but when he sent us the demo, I was like, this is a wonderful, heartbreaking song.

Mike Calabrese (17:10):

I think I thought it was bad because I pay attention a lot as a song or at least my song writing process. I'm like, how are people going to hear this? I was a little bit like, I don't want to hear this. And I think subconsciously, I was like, don't touch this. This is bad. This is bad. And that is one of those moments like Rachael was talking about on stage. She felt like she didn't sell it at first. And then you kind of had to meet that moment. You have to be truthful about it. 

And to be honest, especially that line, “What do I say to my baby girl?” What do I still think about that? What am I going to say to her? What are the questions she's going to ask me? Is she going to be mad at us? To be honest, I still have a hard time playing that song on stage, but that's the greatest lesson because that's the thing they say. You have to get uncomfortable to learn things and to actually do good. Now I know when I feel uncomfortable presenting that song to people, that's actually the 100% right thing to do.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk (18:11):

And you have to get it out to be able to move forward. When I hear the phrase, "making do," and when I listen to the song, "Making Do," it strikes my ear as optimistic. And you may not have intended it that way, but it's more or less a message of it's okay, this isn't ideal, but we're going to figure out how to manage this. And I don't know if that's what you want the audience to take away, but I know that your band is not only doing what you can in shows and by example, but you're also working with the carbon pollution reduction non-profit Cool Effect, which is really, really a neat organization to offset your touring carbon footprint. 

How does that work, exactly? 

Mike Calabrese (18:52):

They are non-profits so they're like, here's the spreadsheet of all the things that they're like, this is the emissions for a tour bus. This is the emissions for flights. This is the emissions for–hotel rooms are big emitters. And then you just, like, I went up to our tour manager at the end of the tour and I was like, how many hotels do we stay in? How many miles did we drive? And just plug and play. 

Rachael Price (19:15):

Yeah, you can choose, you know, which is kind of fun, which thing they're going to do to offset the emissions that we've created, which is really cool. I mean, it's so simple and straightforward. When Mike brought it to us, I was like, oh, this is literally the least we can do.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk (19:31):

Yeah. Right, right. You're basically just taking responsibility for your carbon footprint and understanding what it is and then offsetting it through one of these

Rachael Price (19:39):

Projects. They're doing all the work.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk (19:42):

Love that. Um, is this the first year you did that? Well, probably not this year, because we've been in lockdown. What was your first year's worth of carbon footprint? And talk about how that played out.

Mike Calabrese (19:55):

For some reason, 450 metric tons of carbon was our number. Something like that. The miles we put on that bus, it was definitely good for us to do the offsetting thing for the help that it does to the different projects. But you know, also you are face-to-face with undeniable numbers representing the environmental impact of your career. I don't think it should be a pat on the back. You know, it's literally accounting for your emissions, and then that is accountability. 

You know, it's like, do we want to put that many miles on a tour bus? Do we want to take this many flights? Ooh, it's less of a carbon footprint to, uh, for each of us to stay a week in a hotel room than it is for us to drive the bus to seven different shows. So what if we just did seven shows in one place and just stayed in hotel rooms instead? Also outside of your operation, it gets you thinking, it really shows you the economy anywhere runs on fossil fuels.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk (21:16):

Most people pursuing green careers probably think they'll help develop some kind of new technology, or maybe work in government policy, or drive a green commitment for a company. Do you think that music can be as powerful to make a difference when it comes to climate change?

Rachael Price (21:35):

Uh, as powerful as a policy change? Uh, no.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk (21:39):

Fair enough. Fair enough.

Rachael Price (21:40):

We need those things way more than all the things that you just listed, but we need people to keep thinking about these necessary changes. We needed to stay at the forefront of their mind. Like Calabrese was saying, we need to not not think about it. 

And so part of what music and art does is that it can put messages and feelings that reflect a general sense of dread or sadness or any sort of feelings. It can put them sort of into the water, so to speak. It can enter ideas into the general zeitgeist. And so part of what every musician is doing, and artist of any medium, is trying to sort of sprinkle in ideas or feelings. Like they might be their emotions that we have as individuals that we want to express. 

But also an undeniable part of being an artist is picking up on other people's feelings and observing them. I think that is part of what drives us to then put that into a song. Something collective is brewing inside of us. We were like, oh, you feel that way too. And most of us would never write it down. We would just invalidate ourselves immediately and, and be like, nobody wants to hear about what I'm feeling. I think really, really great song writers are like, oh no, I think other people feel this way too.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk (23:09):

Well, I want to transition a little bit to talk about your song, "Shame, Shame, Shame." Uh, this is the theme song for Degrees. My executive producer, Rick, and I loved this song because we felt like it really embodied the momentum of the emerging climate leaders that we work with every day through the Climate Corp program at EDF. And it's a workforce that we feel like, and we know can't be stopped. They're out there. They're making a difference in a lot of different sectors and companies and cities around the world. That being said, this song kind of sounds like a breakup song. It's about a guy specifically.

Music (23:51):

Shame, shame, shame on you 

I bet you think you're a big man now 

But you don't know how to be a good man too

Yesh Pavlik Slenk (23:56):

But this song is actually a political song. Am I right? It's about a guy that was our former president?

Rachael Price (24:02):

Yes, That's right.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk (24:03):

Can you tell me a little bit about the process for writing this?

Rachael Price (24:07):

This is a song by Bridget Carney, who is such an incredible songwriter. And I think that she's just always working diligently on how to write a song beyond love and breakups and romance in a way that feels truthful, and you know, says what we're feeling. And I think this happened to a lot of artists after Trump got elected, which we were all sent reeling. And we were like, oh God, this is consuming me. This is what I'm thinking about. How do I write a song about this? And I think in a lot of ways, it took us all a few years, almost, to figure it out. 

But yeah, "Shame, Shame, Shame" you know, I think that one of the things that she did really well was write about this character. Like it was directly inspired by our former president, but she was writing about a character that has existed in history, time after time, that we're all familiar with. And it was a song about power and about the abuse of power and saying to them, “shame on you, shame on you” for using your power in this nefarious and dangerous way.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk (25:26):

And now we use the hook, "Shame is coming, oh yeah!" as our theme song, not only for this podcast, but I think in many ways for the people who are listening and the generation around them, the people who are saying, “Yes, that's part of our history. That's part of our past, but that's not how it's going to be anymore”. Well, now I have some quick and dirty personal questions for both of you that we're asking all of our guests. So you have to choose one or the other and you just both chime in at the same time, go for it. If you want to take turns, that's fine too. Here we go. Mountain or beach.

Rachael Price (26:02):

Oh, that's rude.

Mike Calabrese (26:10):

Wow. Yes. Super, super rude. I grew up going to the beach. That was like, the ocean was my healing zone. But since marrying, my wife who's from Vermont and going up there in the summer and going to the, you know, their mountain, her family's mountain people and going to the lakes up there, the hiking, the running the, the like early morning post-rain forest walk versus getting baked. 

At least at this age, I'm kind of like, I'm uncomfortable with being sweaty. I feel gross. I'm way too self-conscious. So go into the lake. It's quieter. It's still, that's kind of my jam.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk (26:53):

Okay, mountains for Mike. Rachael?

Rachael Price (26:54):

I'm going to say mountain too.

Mike Calabrese (26:56):

Yeah, Rach. Okay!

Rachael Price (26:58):

I have a mountain tattoo. Like it's one of my happy places

Mike Calabrese (27:02):

Right. Rachael's from the mountains, Tennessee.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk (27:07):

Yeah. That's part of who you are. All right. Next one. Pet or plant?

Mike Calabrese (27:12):

Plant. A plant is way easier to take care of. I love Rachael's cat, Stella. I've known her from the old days, from like, living in Boston days. But a plant you can leave for a couple of weeks. I guess you could leave a cat for a couple of weeks too.

Rachael Price (27:26):

Yeah. I've definitely, I've definitely kept Stella alive much longer than any of my plants.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk (27:30):

Are you two learning something about each other right now? Or was that predictable? All right. Final question. Power or money?

Mike Calabrese (27:38):

Um, yeah, if I had to choose, I'd say power.

Rachael Price (27:41):

Yeah, power, I don't need money. I'm a Virgo. So we like control.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk (27:46):

What's wrong with Money?

Mike Calabrese (27:47):

Nothing inherently...

Rachael Price (27:48):

No, genius invention.

Mike Calabrese (27:50):

I think of money as just a technology. It's like human technology. And maybe that's the reason, because it doesn't mean anything unless you give it meaning. Power is kind of power and it's about how you wield it, I guess. And you could say that about money, but look at Bitcoin, or whatever. It doesn't exist and it has zero meaning and that's like, that's powerlessness to me.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk (28:16):

We'll have to follow that one. See if it becomes power or not. Great. If you were to say one thing to the people who are listening to the people who want to make change for the environment, what would it be?

Rachael Price (28:30):

I would say pay attention and educate yourself. I think education can change a generation. And I think that if we all were taking the time to really educate ourselves about the climate crisis, every single person and teach our kids about the climate crisis, I just think inevitably education is what it can, it can really move a whole, move a generation.

Mike Calabrese (28:53):

Yeah. I would say that things I had mentioned before, I like the adage of the poison is the antidote, and maybe it's apt to right now, like there's a lot of discussion around vaccines, right? And  what is a vaccine? That's a representation, or maybe a little bit of an actual sickness that you put in your body on purpose to create an environment within yourself of strength, and immunity, and survival, and thriving. 

It's analogous to me, to the pain, the discomfort, the grief, the despair, and any of these negative things. You can think of those as they can become diseases in you. And so I think it's important to inoculate yourself against the pit of despair, meaning that you need to get uncomfortable in the right ways. And that's a very personal thing that you need to figure out for yourself. 

But in terms of steeling your resolve, in terms of joining other people in the fight, in terms of figuring out exactly what your role perfectly is in this whole human drama, I think you have to deal with that. And the good news is that if you deal with the good pain and the right way, you will become inoculated against the worst.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk (30:26):

So get yourself educated, get uncomfortable, and get more powerful. I love it. Well, thank you, both. Rachael Price and Mike Calabrese are members of the band, Lake Street Dive. Thank you, Rachael. And thank you, Mike. In the next episode of Degrees…

BJ Johnson (30:45):

We like to say we're taking the diesel fuel out of the diesel engine because diesel is a bad word. It's a dirty word, but that's because of the fuel and not the engine it runs in. They've always been coupled together, but there's tremendous power in decoupling those two things.

Yesh Pavlik Slenk (31:00):

We'll talk to BJ Johnson. He's a former USA swim team member who created a technology to trick diesel engines into running on renewable fuel. Degrees is presented by Environmental Defense Fund. Amy Morse is our producer. Our executive producers are Rick Velleux and Christina Mestre. Podcast Allies is our production company. And I am your host, Yesh Pavlik Slenk. The foundation of our show though, is you. If you found value in today's episode, subscribe and share it with other job hunters and, as always, stay fired up, y'all.

Music (31:36):

Change is coming, oh yeah

Ain't no holding it back

Ain't no running

Change is coming oh yeah!